Alyce Chan on Mental Health for Moms: Comedy, Postpartum Depression, and the Glass Ceiling
Season 1 Episode 14
Listen to the podcast
Mom by day, comedian by night, Alyce Chan (@MomComNYC, @Scary Mommy) is ready to smash two glass ceilings - the one at home, and the other in the male-dominated world of comedy. Alyce is a modern-day Marvelous Ms. Maisel who entertains and uplifts thousands of moms with her stand-up comedy while offering parenting insights with deadpan humor, spot-on impersonations of her husband and Chinese-Canadian mom, and hilarious vulnerability that slays on stage, on Instagram, and on TikTok.
Alyce and Vanessa talk about the many faces of Postpartum Depression based on their lived experiences with PPD, intergenerational Asian mom rage, and how we can look at the everyday #parentingfail as “failing upwards”. Alyce shares how she nurtures her creative process and energy while developing grit as a performer, writer and comedian. We debate what self-care really means for tired moms who are told to "enjoy every moment!" Lastly, inspired by Reshma Saujani (Founder of Girls Who Code and the Marshall Plan for Moms), we ask how we can turn our rage into power - for moms, women of color and Asian Americans.
About Alyce Chan:
Alyce Chan is a stand up comedian who performs all over New York, including the Comedy Cellar, Caroline’s, Broadway Comedy Club and the Knitting Factory. She created BYOB (Bring Your Own Baby) comedy show to parents and caregivers where they can bring their babies for a comedy show. Alyce can be regularly seen on the largest parenting blog, Scary Mommy. Alyce founded MOMCOM NYC, a parenting platform that uses humor to empower and bring laughs to mothers.
Alyce has been a guest on The Drew Barrymore show, as well as many renowned podcasts such as Pat Dixon’s New York City Crime Report, Fake Outrage Report, Funny People Talking, Shit Moms Won’t Say, Stand-Up Mom, and Neurotic Nourishment. Alyce has also been the resident comedian for a remarkable all-women retreat, Renew Breakup Bootcamp, which has been featured in Vogue, New York Times and Good Morning America.
See Alyce perform live at the New York Comedy Festival with Crazy Woke Asians
Want to laugh with Alyce and other Asian American comedians IRL? She’ll be performing on November 8th at the New York Comedy Festival at the legendary venue Caroline’s on Broadway. This is the first time an all-Asian lineup of comedians has ever performed at the New York Comedy Festival, so let’s get out there and represent!
New York Comedy Festival presents, CRAZY WOKE ASIANS, the always sold out comedy show featuring the funniest Asian American comedians in Los Angeles at Caroline’s On Broadway. Lineup features comedians who have performed at Laugh Factory, the Comedy Store, and more - like Crazy Woke Asians Founder Kiki Yeung, Sonya Vai, Jason Rogers, Alyce Chan (Bring Your Own Baby Comedy, MOMCOM NYC, Scary Mommy), Soo Ra, Ali Malik and special guest TBA!
Tickets: https://www.carolines.com/events/crazy-woke-asians/
Promo code for $5 off: CWA
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episode music courtesy of Uppbeat [ATM]
Watch the Video Podcast
Watch the full Thrive Spice podcast interview: Mental Health for Moms with Vanessa Shiliwala and Alyce Chan on YouTube
Real talk on mental health for moms
Memorable quotes from Alyce’s interview, including the importance of finding connection and community with other moms, and why Postpartum Depression (PPD) often goes undetected and undiagnosed.
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Mental Health Resources for Moms
Motherhood Center of New York: counseling, support groups, programs and events 212-335-0034 @themotherhoodcenter
Mental Health for New Moms @momsmaternalhealth
Dr. Jenny Wang, Ph.D, licensed Psychologist and mom. Founder of Asians for Mental Health @asiansformentalhealth
Dr. Aparna Iyer, Board-certified Psychiatrist and mom specializing in Maternal Mental health @aparnaiyermd
Shades of Blue Project - Black Maternal Mental Health @shadesofblueproject
Shades of You, Shades of Me - Multicultural Maternal Mental Health @soy_som
Read the Blog
Full Podcast Interview Transcript
Vanessa: Our guest here today at Thrive Spice is Alyce Chan, a stand up comedian who performs all over New York, including comedy cellar, Carolines, and the knitting factory. She created BYOB, Bring Your Own Baby comedy show, to parents and caregivers, where they can bring their babies for a comedy show.
Alyce can regularly be seen on the largest parenting blogs, Scary Mommy. Alice founded mom com NYC a parenting platform that uses humor to empower and bring laughs to mothers.
You can follow Alyce @momcomnyc on Instagram and TikTok. And of course, please follow us @thrivespice on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube for videos, quotes, inspiration on mental health for Asian-Americans. And of course all the updates on our podcast. We aren't cool enough to be on TikTok yet, but maybe we'll get there someday.
We start off today’s episode with something all moms do when they’re off-duty without their kids: we talk about our kids, of course!
Vanessa: I totally relate to just never getting enough sleep. Everyone's like, oh, it's going to get better once they sleep through the night. But then they fail to explain to you that they're just going to keep waking up even after...
Alyce: if there's more than 4 days consistently, I'm like, okay, I'm ready.
I'm ready for them. It's never been like consistently like sleeping through the night.
Vanessa: Yeah. It's always something.
Alyce: I forgot, how old are your kids?
Vanessa: So I have a almost two year old and she's going to be two in like less than a month. And then I have a three and a half year old.
Yeah.
Alyce: Oh you have two, I thought you had one.
Vanessa: Yeah, it's two and they're acting a lot more like twins now.
I need to get to get two of everything. Like they have to have the same, exact type of snack or food, otherwise like fights break out, like I'm just in the referee position a lot of times.
Alyce: so cute, but a lot of work.
Vanessa: Yeah. And how old are yours?
Alyce: James is seven and the little one is turning five in a month.
Vanessa: Oh my gosh. That's like, you're supposed to be out of that zone of like the craziness, but I guess that's not true,
Alyce: half of it is true. The sleeping is kind of like 50/50, but like my seven year old is at home. I'd rather him being home than my four and a half year old because he doesn't actually bother me. Like he knows he gets it, he won't bother me.
So it does get easier.
Vanessa: I don't know if you're one of those moms who was like, I'm not going to give my kids screen time. I'm not going to be that mom. And then like two minutes later, you're like here, just take the screen.
Alyce: Yeah, that all went out the door after the first one turned one, I was so good for 12 months and I was like, whoa, like he doesn't need a screen.
Yeah. Yeah. Now he's like watching movies, like, 16 and up. And I've gotta watch it with you, at least.
Vanessa: Yeah. So, you know, what's going on and like when they hear
a bad word.
Alyce: I'm like, you can't say that word.
Vanessa: Of course. They're like, what's that word? I'm going to just start saying it now and over and over again.
Alyce: All right, mommy. I won't say shit.
Vanessa: Yeah, exactly.
Well, I'm so thrilled to have you on Thrive Spice today. I've been following you for awhile, like huge fan and you're just one of those like rare, rare breeds of Asian mom comedian s who not only slays on the stage and on Instagram, but empowers and brings other young and even older female comics on the stage with you. I was thinking about it. And I think there's really only like one Asian mom comedian, Ali Wong. We all know her.
And I was going to say like, Margaret Cho but I'm like, I don't know if she has kids. I was just like, wow, you're out there. I was so happy to go to your show last week in New York city. And I was so impressed by not only how well you did and, and your comedy show and your whole routine, but also you gave a first time Asian female comic, the opening spot, a black female comic and also a 63 year old female comic the stage.
You're officially a unicorn, so, so impressive. And the world needs more people like you. Can you tell us more about your personal journey and your why as the founder of BYOB and MomComNYC? what has surprised you about your journey and the community you've created along the way?
Alyce: Oh, my gosh. Can I cry? And have you introduce me every time?
I am sorry but putting my name on the same sentence as Ali Wong.
First of all, thank you for coming to my show because I know how hard it is, especially with two young kids toddlers, and you brought your husband, usually they're like, okay, husband, at least has the kids covered. Right. And I can leave, but that's a lot like babysitting and oh yeah. We're living in the burbs and like driving all the way to the city.
So I, I really appreciate moms who make an effort like that. And getting your husband to go out with you that night.
Vanessa: It was, it was a pleasure. I mean, it was a military operation that's for sure. Like we, every minute had to be planned and it was my first time driving to the city. So I was like gripping the steering wheel, like sweating, just like, and like getting into fights with my GPS.
I'm like, no, I don't want to go there. Like that doesn't make any sense, but I made it. And yeah, absolutely. He was like, wait, we're getting a sitter. He's like, I'm coming. I don't want to be home with the kids.
Alyce: Two things you're braver than me, cause I can never, I would never drive into the city. And two, your husband is the cutest thing.
You guys are the most adorable couple you guys were just smiley smile. So cute.
Vanessa: Oh, don't believe the hype don't believe the hype. It's not like that all the time for sure. Of course. If we have a sitter and we get to like actually eat dinner and taste our food and like amount to a show, like we are very happy and that's not the majority of life with two toddlers.
Alyce: I know. And it's so great that you make the effort to connect with her husband and I, this year, I made a promise to myself. Like what I want to really resonate is connection, connection with my kids, connection, to my husband and connection to my audience in on the online space. And it's funny because I started I started up BYOB, which is bring your own baby comedy.
When I was, when my second kid was six months old and I haven't, hadn't done comedy for like four and a half years. I took a hiatus. And I thought like there was something missing and I didn't know what it was. I was stay-at-home mom. I had odd gigs like photography and maybe some graphic design here and there, but nothing really to fill my day.
So mostly I'm taking care of the kids, taking them to the park. And I, I knew there was something missing and it was performing again. And I had to find a way to make it work. Now that I'm a mom. And now that I have, you know, responsibilities looking after my baby and also our toddler going to school at that time I was like, there must be something that I can do.
So I started to visit local bars that were close by at home. So the commute wasn't too stressful. I would try to do shows at like a block over here or anywhere in Brooklyn. Cause I was living in Brooklyn. So it was easy. It. Wasn't what I wanted. I thought like, you know what? I want to create something because there's nothing about parent comedy.
I was always thrown in with like 20 year old males or performers who have been doing it forever, that didn't have family obligations. And I'm like, of course it's easy to go every night. If you didn't have a family to be responsible and to wake up in the morning to make lunch and breakfast. Yeah. You can totally do that.
You can devote your life to that, but I can't. I chose motherhood, right. I chose to have a family, so I wanted to balance. And so I start creating the, Bring Your Own Baby. Also because I knew that being alone with your baby the first year is very isolating to a lot of mothers. And so I wanted to build that community to connect with those mothers, because I want them to know that this road is lonely, but we can do it together.
So I start bringing my baby in my carrier and I started doing stand up at The Word bookstore, which is in Greenpoint. They were the first ones to say yes to me. The first show had seven people. Half of them were my friends, carried their newborn, and then word got out. And after six months it was pretty much autopilot.
Word of mouth mom's would invite five other mom friends, and they knew it was like a monthly thing and they would come and bring their babies. It was a 45 minute show. They got their coffee, got free cookies, and then out of there and their babies were ready to nap. So it worked great for two and some years.
And then COVID hit. So we had to stop all that. And, uh, then I started to do more digital work on MomCom, and it was much easier obviously because I didn't have to commute and I could just, you know, practice writing jokes and put it in a meme format, you know? And when you're forced to write something funny that fits in like a little box, you really have to get good at it.
So it took a lot of practice. And even though I wasn't up on stage every night, I was writing every day and I was just like, my mind was going on like a comedian, just observing and writing notes down and making fun of, you know, my kids, or making fun of myself and putting it in a meme format. And then it just grew from there.
And I think it was because people could resonate with what I was saying. And then there was a connection. So, yeah, so that's how I started.
Vanessa: That is so cool. I love how you really just kind of started from this place of authenticity and how you mentioned how isolating that journey is, I can absolutely relate to that.
Having been a new mom and also having kind of left a traditional career to stay at home with my kids for a couple of years, like that does a number on you. So I can absolutely, like, I wish like I'd been around when I was in Westchester. So I'm really happy you're here now because I'm like, we have to do this in Westchester.
And yeah, there just aren't that many opportunities for moms too... like everything's focused on the kids, like, you know, music classes and everything, especially like when they're under a year or two years old, like we're like literally. It's just to keep them busy and, you know, expose them to different things, but it's really also for the mom.
So it's really nice to actually like focus on the mom for once because mom's mental health is just as important, if not more, than taking care of the baby.
Alyce: Yes. Mental health and I mean, I didn't know I even had PPD for the first year with my first kid and you're right. There's baby yoga classes, music sing along classes.
And I was so sick of them, because I would go, not have fun, try to meet other moms. And I was like, this comedy thing is just for the parents. You don't have to hire a babysitter. You can bring your parents. It's not going to be like, I'm going to support you. If you're, if you're trying to feed your baby in the middle of a set, or if your baby can come on stage, it's fine.
Like, no, one's going to shame you for being a parent. And I feel like that was such a culture. Like, you know, I was afraid of. Breastfeeding my baby at a coffee shop. And you know, people say women, aren't funny, people are saying moms, aren't funny, or, or you're too old to do this now, you know, you're not 28 year old guy.
So I, I loved having the moms there. I love that they. Did it for themselves, but also like I started seeing moms just like hanging out after, and it became like an hour and 15 show because moms just didn't want to leave and they're making connections with each other. It was cute. It was like, I love moms.
I like, I'm just crazy like that. Like when I see like a new mom walking down the street or she's like, you know, she's like nine months pregnant. I just want to tell her, like, I can help you. Like, let me help you.
Yes, it is. You know, it's so rare and wonderful to find someone who really gets it in that sense and is not afraid to talk about it.
Vanessa: Like you mentioned earlier, you had PPD. I also struggled with postpartum depression with my first and it was really hard. Like I didn't even know what was happening to me. And I think a lot of it had to do with just kind of a loss of sense of self. Like I remember at one point. I had called our like wellness or therapy hotline through our benefits.
And, you know, they had a counselor talking to me and she was like, okay, you know, I've scheduled you for this day. And she's like, you know, here's something to get you like in between now and your actual therapy appointment. And she's like, when was the last time like you showered? And I was like a while ago.
And she's like, are you wearing like actual clothing right now? And I was like, I looked down and I was wearing like a nursing robe. And I'm like, no, I'm not. She's like, have you been feeding yourself? or like, exercising regularly? And I was like, no. and no. So, you know, it's so hard when you're a new mom and your schedule is just like round the clock, particularly when babies are not sleeping and you're feeding them constantly.
I was also like terrified of breastfeeding in public. I mean, my second one, I didn't care. I'm like, whatever it's out and I don't care. And I dare you to approach me, like, I will, I will let you have it. But yeah, I was like that mom with like the nursing cover and like, you know, feeling all self-conscious and yeah, I can totally understand that.
And I actually did go to a comedy show. I went to go see Hasan Minhaj in Carnegie Hall. When my first one was seven months old. And I had to like pump during the intermission and they were really nice about it. Actually. They were like, oh yeah, you can use this special room.
Like I went to the office of Carnegie Hall and I was like, oh, this is so nice. Like this first time I like feel seen in this world, like, they actually provided me like a little space to pump. So I'm just curious, you know, particularly for me, I also had in my experience, like I had a lot of trouble sleeping.
Like my kid would sleep through the night, but then I would wake up at like 2:00 AM or like 4:00 AM and then just like not, I was like anticipating the baby waking up and then like, it would never come, but then I would never fall back asleep. And so that was like a huge signal to me. I'm like, something is wrong.
So I'm curious for you, like, how did it show up for you in terms of your PPD and like what helped you through that process?
Alyce: Well, first of all, it's so great that you actually initiate a call to our wellness center and took a pause because someone is asking you, what are you wearing right now? And it made you actually look at yourself and be present and just pause for a moment like, oh my gosh, this is what I'm wearing.
And those are the self-care needs that you neglected. And someone had to ask you, when did you shower last? Is that crazy that someone had to ask you for you to even notice that you haven't been taking care of yourself?
Vanessa: Yeah, I think it's because we're fed this story, that this is just what motherhood is supposed to be.
Like, you're just supposed to be this mess. Like there's no reprieve from it and you're just supposed to like tough it out for some reason.
Alyce: Yeah. I actually didn't even know I had PPD because I thought everything was fine because post-partum depression, to me, meant you're depressed. You're sad. And I was super happy.
I loved my baby. I loved going out. I loved meeting moms. I loved talking to my mom and FaceTiming my sisters. And, but I hated my husband and I resented him and I resented his family for not helping out as much or maybe overstaying or like asking me questions about my baby or my parenting style. So my resentment built and I felt like he didn't help enough because he didn't have boobs to nurse the kids, you know, like silly things.
And my hormones are out of whack and I don't know what's going on. My mom lived in Canada, still lives in Canada. So I needed my mom, so I didn't have that care. And so it was a lot of like the whole neglecting my self care. Neglecting self care needs, not showering, not going out with my friends, like on a normal day, normal night out, I stayed in.
Cause I was like, okay, I can feed the baby. I need to feed the baby. And yeah, sleep was awful. My husband didn't believe in sleep training, so we never sleep trained. So the baby was waking up every 45 minutes. And of course I had to feed the baby. And so when your lack of sleep and no hormones, I always just felt rage.
And I just hated my husband for a whole year. And I would tell my friends, I'm like, is it normal to fall asleep? Instead of counting sheep, I'm just counting stabs at my husband's back. And they're all looked at me and they're like, Alice, you sound crazy or you need to see somebody. And I'm like, I'm not going to actually kill him.
I'm just like, that's how I go to sleep now. And they're all like, oh my God. And another like year passed and it got better. But not a whole lot better. And I just talked to my therapist. I just started seeing a therapist eight months ago, and I explained the story to her and she goes, you did have PPD.
It doesn't always come out as depression. And you're sad at home and crying. It can come out as rage. And I had that. So I think they need to re name, recoin that term because I was like, I'm not, I don't have PPD and I never sought support. And I've could have totally helped me, my husband and our marriage, but I let it fall apart because I was happy.
I was like, I can just run away with my baby.
Vanessa: Yes. I totally agree with you on it just, it needs to be kind of reframed in some way, because depression implies that. Like, you're just, you're always feeling that way. And there, there are many moments of joy. Even if you do have PPD, like I, I had like 8 billion pictures of my kid.
Like I just love to take photos of her. We had so many happy moments together, and I think that's most people, right? Like it's not always a hundred percent of the time you're depressed or a hundred percent of the time, you're happy. It's just about like normalizing the human range.
And then I think there's a lot of, like, there's just a lack of clinical research, even on postpartum depression and like nursing and all of that, because I think they just said like, oh, we don't want to test on nursing mothers and babies or something. But I really think that if there were more research behind this, we could, you know, give it a name and really talk about it in a way that would help women.
And. Yeah, medical professionals recognize what is going on because I agree, like PPD looks very different for everyone. And I think every mom, regardless of whether they're clinically diagnosed or not, they go through a huge transformation and, you know, lack of sleep and all the hormonal changes, that will do a number on anybody. So just recognizing that there's all these external factors. I think that would also help us as a community of mothers just to understand, like, it doesn't all look the same. Yeah.
Alyce: Yeah. And wouldn't that help our partners too, because the partners are in this dark space and mothers are feeling this way and they're not talking to their partners and partners aren't understanding.
And I remember my husband was saying something like. Yeah, I don't understand why that, why that mom did this to the kid and didn't want to see the kid. I'm like, well, clearly she's going through like PPD because that's not normal. You know, the moms that connect with a baby and it's like, how can anyone not connect with the baby?
And I'm like, okay, that comment isn't just probably by my husband, right? Like husbands partners, they all need to know this happens and this is normal and you're right. People don't talk about it enough. And if people talk about it and share their experiences, and it's not always a picture of some like woman, like crying in the middle, in the shower, in the corner of the shower, it's not that picture.
Right. I think I read one article and there was a picture of some like sad woman crying. And it's not that. PPD is everything, resentment, rage. And you said it so well about joy, there are moments of joy and all mothers become amazing photographers, right?
Vanessa: Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, really moms are like the highest functioning individuals with mental health issues, because we, because we have to be, I mean, we have to take care of our own children, while also taking care of our household and family. And I feel like the pandemic, really just exposed and flung that door wide open to see how, you know, women were taking on the lion's share of housework.
And even during a pandemic, even if both partners were working, women were still taking on more of the caretaking. And I think that it's, it's almost like when the pandemic happened. I was like, okay, now the rest of you understand how I've been feeling. Cause I've been home with a kid for like a year and a half now, like welcome to my world.
This is what it's like. And it's, it can be really unbearable at times.
Yup. I totally, I totally agree. The pandemic definitely added stressors to working moms who already have like crap load of stuff going on. And yeah, a lot of women had to leave the workforce too, so unfair.
It is extremely unfair.
Alyce: Yeah. Things need to change. And I think, uh, people like you who have a platform to amplify voices, especially women of color, mothers of all range and backgrounds, that's a huge step in because we didn't have this. My mom and my mom's generation didn't have podcasts and interviews and women trying to amplify and support other women.
Totally. I mean, when I grew up in Wisconsin, so my mom, you know, she's an immigrant. So she came to basically like the whitest place in America and you know, met my dad in college there. And they had me while I was, while they were in college, actually. So they were poor. They they survived on food stamps and like the help of their community other international students as well.
Cause I was the first born. And they had it tough and I feel like a lot of times when I'm doing this podcast and I'm thinking about like, w what is my, why here? A lot of it is because, you know, I remember my mom spent so many years. Just kind of wandering up the self-help aisle at bookstores.
Like I would just catch her like kind of wandering up and down, like trying to like read a book here and there. And I feel like I'm trying to write that book that she never could find there because there wasn't one for like women of color, moms of color who are like first-generation immigrants, just trying to balance family work and like, get the food on the table, keep their marriage together.
There wasn't something like that when I was growing up and I saw how hard it was for her as a mother. And I saw that kind of like secret pain that she carried. It was just so hard for her to talk about because it wasn't normalized in our community. And to some extent, I feel like it's still not quite there yet, which is really what this podcast is all about.
It's just kind of normalizing it. Right. Like a lot of people are going through this. It's okay to talk about it. Asians are three times less likely to seek help for mental health issues than white people. And there's, there's a lot of reasons for that. You know, something that I really related to in your comedy was this like sense of rage and injustice that moms and women of color in particular we experience.
And it feels like you're fighting two glass ceilings, you know, one at home with, we're doing the lion's share of the unpaid household work and caretaking, and then also the male dominated comedy world or the corporate world. So there's these two glass ceilings.
And I, I just really related to that. And I remember there was this video of you, like, angrily chopping vegetables and your husband's like, oh, why are you mad? You're like, I'm not mad. And it's like chopping away. And I'm like, that's. So me, like, I feel like I finally feel seen, like, that's me, seven days out of the week, angrily chopping vegetables. And my kids are like, No strawberries.
I want grapes! No grapes. I want apples. This is the wrong color bowl. And just like, everyone's screaming at me. And I'm like, I just work here, guys. Like, I just, I'm just the resident slave, whatever you want, it's coming to you. But I'm like, where can I draw this boundary? And I just have this theory that Asian women have the most rage.
We are just accustomed to being like at the bottom of the food chain, whether it's at work or at home and in America. And we've gone through our whole lives, feeling like that. And, you know, even research has shown that Asian women are the least likely racial and ethnic group to enter the C-suite both in Silicon valley and at Fortune 500 companies. This is a huge problem.
So it starts, you know, in the home and in our families and in our communities. And it goes all the way up to, you know, corporate America and even in Silicon valley. And yet we're hyper-sexualized and objectified in ways that just make us feel less than. My husband is always like, why are Asian women so angry?
And I'm like, do you need my speech again? Like, do you need to understand where the rage comes from? And so it was just like, I was like, that's why I love your comedy. Cause like I saw the rage and I was like, yeah, I feel you girl. Like, that's me, like, that's me a hundred percent. Like finally someone gets it.
And so at the same time, like traditional Asian culture tells us like, okay, women should not be mad. They should not have rage. They should not ask for help or need help. So there's just this like binary that holds us back from expressing it or getting help for it. So I'm curious, how has injustice or inequity fueled your comedy and how do your fans respond to this?
Oh, wow. Well, I know which video you're talking about and it was just a regular Wednesday night of me making spaghetti Bolognese and I remember I was already upset about something. That I can't even recall, but I was upset at my husband and I remember actually chopping the onions really mad so that he could hear, and he was upstairs and I'm like, just chopping it away.
I was so mad. And then I was like, wait a minute, this is a good, reel. I can make comedy out of this. All right. So I'm like, so that was kind of like a sidebar thing. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this form of comedy when I calm down. But I got to fix the spaghetti right now. So after dinner I don't even know if I ever approached him to let him know.
Why I was mad. That's kind of like why I'm seeing a therapist actually right now. Cause my communication sucks and yeah, a lot of rage, I have to credit my parents for fueling that in me when I was a kid. Cause I saw a lot of arguing and fighting and my mom had a lot of resentment and rage, but she would tell us about it instead of telling my dad about it.
So I could feel like how upset and ragey she was and how, why she resented my husband, which is not healthy. You don't want to show your kids that, but that was her outlet. And so I think I was carrying a lot of that generational rage, and also my grandma who was, I felt like she was doing so much for everyone and she was always the last to eat.
She was buying groceries up to like 84 years old, she was buying groceries. She couldn't even drive properly anymore. She was still buying groceries for all her kids. She had five kids and she would drive her husband around and, you know, and they had marital problems, but she was always happy and laughing.
But I saw like I saw how much she gave of herself and I'm like, wow, what a woman. And I think a lot of the rage comes from seeing how my grandma was treated, how she sacrificed so much and she never got back anything. And how my mom was forced to get married at a young age and how she was treated in her own relationships.
And, and then, you know, I always vowed to myself. I'm like, I'm never going to be that way. I'm never going to be quiet and I'm never gonna like let my husband tell me what to do. And if I don't feel like something is right, I'm going to speak up. I'm still working on that. And and I'm going to have a healthy marriage.
I'm not going to find someone who sees women as objects and as women as their housekeeper and, and all of the 1950s traditional crap that what we've been getting fed by this by society. And so, yeah, I think a lot of my humor, I don't think it touches everybody on the same note. I think some people it's just like, that's not my flavor.
And some people really, really get it. And those are my people and the people who don't get it, they tell me, I'm going to unfollow you. And that's fine. It's good. Cause I don't want you on my page because I'm doing it for my people who see me and I have been purging my Instagram account.
We'll talk about masks, and I will get a huge unfollow and unfollowing, which is great because I don't want you on my page. If you don't believe that adults should be wearing masks and in indoor public spaces. Right. And so I've been getting a lot of positive vibes and energy people would write me. And, you know, every note I try to message back because it means so much to me
that a mother would stop in her tracks. I know she has a busy day to write me something nice. And I don't always, I can't always get back to everyone. I try, but that's the energy that fuels me to keep going. I mean, when Instagram broke down yesterday, I was just like, oh my God, what do I do?
What am I? Where's my community. I'm gonna be in such a crappy mood.
Vanessa: I love that. I mean, I think part of being a mom has been like rethinking what success means to us and how we get paid basically. Right. Like, I always tell my husband, I'm like, look, this is an unpaid job, being a mom. Like I only get paid in love.
So make sure I get paid, you know? So whether it's from your husband or the community that you're building, and I agree, like I respond to like any messages I get because it's yeah, because that's, that's my money. Like that's, that's what I'm getting out of this community. It's just like, oh, wow. Like I actually impacted someone's like daily life.
That's the goal really. So. And I agree with you what you said earlier in terms of just fostering that sense of connection, because in today's pandemic world, that is super, super rare. It's not something I take for granted. And I think when you become a mother, like you truly understand, you know, how valuable that is to have that sense of connection with your community and have a purpose.
So I love that you kind of got into it already, but I'd love to learn a little bit more about your own creative process. You know, how do you go about like, cause you, I mean, you do everything you do like the reels, you do comedy routines, you blog, like what's your own creative process and how do you nurture that?
And, find time or, you know, schedule that in as a mom?
Alyce: I love, I love that question because. Once I tell you you'll be like, is that really what she does? Because I don't have a schedule.. And my husband's at home working from home and our house is small. We can hear each other.
I can hear him type. I can hear him chew if I'm downstairs, he's upstairs. I know when he sneezes. So when I do my filming, I already have an idea. I have some sort of concept and that can be taken by a real life experience that maybe it's my children that did something to me. And they said something.
And so I keep it in my head. Or if I'm at the playground and I hear some conversations between two moms, I'm like, Ooh, that's good material. I keep in my head. And then I only film when nobody is in the house, which is very rare Vanessa.
Vanessa: You have like three minutes
Alyce: I have my ring light ready and my iPhone charged up ready.
And when my husband maybe finally takes a step away from the house and be like, okay, I'm going to go home Depot, or I'm going to grab lunch. I have 40 minutes to film something. And that's when I do it, I pull out his hat and his jacket and then I'd pretend to be him because I can't do it when he's around because you know, creative process, I don't want to be judged.
Yeah. My kids are loud. And so sometimes I can actually film when my kids are loud, because I'm like, this is normal. We need background noise. And you know, this is what I'm feeling. The imperfect motherhood, you know, normalizing the messy motherhood. So the kids should be loud. So sometimes it works when my kids are home, not when my husband is home.
And then with memes, and jokes. It's always just tucked in my head. Like usually when I'm up at three or four in the morning, that's when I'm more creative. So when my kid wakes me up in the middle of night, I start thinking about comedy, and I've come up with some really like good one-liners I'm like, oh my gosh, that was so good.
And sometimes when I'm working out, like I remember working out on the day of my comedy set and as I was working out, my husband wasn't home and it was going full blast. And I actually had a couple of jokes that I just whipped up. So it was not very structured in terms of how I could come up with my creative.
My creative process is not structured at all. Like life is all over the place.
Vanessa: That's so refreshing to hear. Like, I also feel seen in that because people are like, oh, how do you, you know, do this podcast? And like, how do you come up with the questions? And I was like, you know what. Uh, 99% of the time, the question that I came up with was either in the shower or while I was walking the dog, like, that's my time.
That's my, that's my creative time. I can like let my brain kind of wander a little bit. And like that's where it comes from. And that was kind of hard for myself to even like accept initially, because I was used to like being in a corporate environment while I'm like sitting at my desk, I'm creating decks.
Like this is where all the creativity comes from. And I was like, no, no, actually it's just going to come. Like while I'm picking up my dog's poop and I'm like, I'm, I'm curious about this. I'm going to ask them this question. And that's where a lot of it comes from. And so I find that really refreshing you know, as a fellow creative person, because I think that there is a lot of pressure to like time manage and like, you know, I'll eat, I'll try, right?
Like I'll, I'll schedule my day, like download. 30 minute increments. And then I fail hard. Like I fail hard every day. It's just like, oh yeah, wow. Three hours went by that, that didn't happen. And I was like, well, you know what I got through like maybe half of it. So I feel like part of being a mom is just like failing on the regular.
So if you're a recovering perfectionist like me, you just like get used to failing a lot,
Alyce: as long as you're failing up. Right. Learning as you go, you're not going to redo the same mistakes, but I love that your process is the same as me. It's just that I don't have a dog, I'm like waking up at three in the morning and then I get my juices going.
So that's, I guess it's normal, I guess, because just like you, I was at a corporate environment and you have a nine to five, you have a desk and okay. Be creative from nine to five. As we
Vanessa: work. Right. Right.
Alyce: So right now I'm like, I don't feel anything. So it'll be like a whole three days maybe.
Vanessa: Yes. And that happens for me too. Like, I'll have like periods of several days where I'm just like, not in the zone, not there just trying to survive. And then like, I can, then I output in like 45 minutes, all of a sudden I'll get like a streak and I'm like, I'm done. Like, I've gotten everything done for the next two weeks.
And I'm like, whoa, I don't know what happened, but yeah, that's kind of life. Right. It's not predictable like that. I'm curious, like you're a performer, so how do you gain that like confidence and resilience and protect your energy both on and off the stage as a comedian?
Alyce: I love all your questions. It's funny. I can't believe you thought of this while you're picking up dog poop. I know you're a genius. I am a total introvert, so it's not like I go out every night. And if I know I have a show going, I contain it, contain my energy by being at home and, uh, trying to love all my kids and not, you know, yell at them because that's negative energy.
I try not to eat like four hours prior to a show. And then usually after a show, I'm so high on adrenaline, I only sleep for two hours.
Vanessa: Oh my God.
Alyce: It affects me the whole week, because it's so much energy just not just to perform, but the logistics. Are people gonna show up, do they know that we're coming?
Will the bartenders be on point? Well, people pay their bills. Will people bring their vaccination cards, all those little things, and you you're a producer. So, you know, those details have to be all on point in the course to create a show. So I'm worrying about that. And then the performance, the performance energy comes from the audience.
And I always say that if I have a good audience, the show becomes great. If I don't have a good audience, it's going to suck. So half the time, I don't know how am I going to perform on stage sometimes I'll bomb and that's okay. And sometimes I'll come up with new material as the audience engages with me.
And that's what makes the best show, just I love engaging with the audience. So that's where I got the energy just from the audience. And then after that, I just, I go home. I don't talk to anybody. I guess I try to sleep, but I, I can't. And then I'm, I'm happy. Like I'm on a high for like a whole week. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm just coming down from that high.
It just, those big shows that I produce, give me that when I do like smaller shows and smaller sets, it has that type of effect too. But the stress isn't there in terms of producing it. But yeah, I love, I like to stay low, like. Just low key for the next scene or so.
Vanessa: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I can also really, cause I'm also like an extroverted introvert and like really introverted at my core and like you, I don't have unlimited energy.
So I really have to like conserve and protect my own, like yeah, just self care. Right. And. And yeah, so I, I completely understand. And then, yeah, it does take a long time to recover. And I think that's something that people don't realize about. You know, what we do is like, it does take a ton of energy out of us, even if we're not showing it.
And I feel like the people who appear even like the most natural on stage, they're actually like, you know, it's like the ducks on the water. Like they're just paddling furiously underneath. It takes a lot to maintain that. I can definitely relate to that and appreciate it. And please do take the time to self care.
And I'm grateful that you've even like agreed to do this podcast because I know that also takes a lot of energy too.
Alyce: This to me is my adult time and this is part of my self-care. It's like talking to a friend and like, yeah, I love this. This is like my time.
Vanessa: Yes, I totally agree. And that's what podcasts were to me before I started a podcast.
It was like my own like therapy or self care. And it's kind of an escape from like the, the day-to-day craziness at home. So like, I totally get that. I wanted to switch gears a little bit. You know, you mentioned like communication and the intergenerational differences between your mom and your grandma and you. And I feel like You know, for everyone else, non-verbals are 75%.
But then in Asian culture, it's like 99% is like, non-verbal. So that's why it's like, someone's angrily chopping onions. Like you better recognize that and be ready, like come ready to like, figure out what's going on and diagnose the issue. Cause like it's about to go down. So I'm curious, like, you know, when it comes to your parents, you know, Asian parents are notoriously just very into stability.
Right. And they want you to be doctor, lawyer, accountant and all that stuff. My parents were still holding out hope that I become a doctor. So like I get it. But at the same time, we're like, we're grown adults. And we want permission to be our full, whole true selves. So I'm wondering, you know, was this the case for you?
Did you have to navigate that relationship with your parents when you chose more creative fields or comedy? Or were they supportive? What was that like for you.
Alyce: Oh, wow. ok, So my dad doesn't know that I do comedy. This is Asian to the core. My dad does not know. When I worked for a bank, he knew. He's all about finance.
Stocks. He loves talking about stocks and money and business. So when I was working at a bank, he was like, so proud of me. He would, he wanted my business card in his wallet. He would tell all his friends, like she works for HSBC. Like now he, he probably just thinks that I am at home with my kids, ask what I do.
And I actually don't bother to even explain it to him. He's, he's a anomaly. He's a very unique character. We talk about stocks, but we don't talk about my comedy. My mom was always like, Hmm, you're doing that? Well, you think you're funny? And now she's like, send me videos, Send me more videos! Cause she, she got on Instagram because she wanted to follow me.
Yeah, just like four months ago. It was really funny. And some of the things she's been saying to me really has taken me like surprised because I was telling her like, oh yeah, I did this show. But you know, I had to spend $150 on Uber and then I had to do this and you know, I came out, I came out of the show like in the red.
Right. And she goes, you out, but you don't do this for money. You do this because you love it. I'm like, mom? Like, so I think she's understanding it a bit more. I she's never come to my shows. I never invited her. I just thought my parents just wouldn't get it and wouldn't care. So I never invited them and I think I'm hoping my mom comes to my next show when I fly back home.
And that would be, that would be really supportive of her. But even if she doesn't like, she sees my videos and she laughs at it and I, and for her, for her generation, her English isn't, English is a third language for her, to get it, like, to me, like warms my heart. Like I don't need her to just be like, I'm so proud of you.
Like she has never said that to me. She has never said you're so beautiful. You're so skinny. Well, one time I did, I was too skinny. She said, you're too skinny. Right? When I was breastfeeding, she's like, oh, you have no butt, you're too skinny now. And she's never said, I'm so proud of you, but for my mom, her love language is making me food.
Vanessa: Oh, yeah. I think that's every pretty much every Asian mom. They were missing that from Gary Chapman's book. Like the Asian mom version of love, which is like a look at how much food I made you. And then I find myself like, you know how they say, you just become your parents.
Like, I find myself doing the same thing. I'm like, well, look how much food I made you? Like, you better love me. Like, did you see, I made two entrees and a side. And I made you your favorite dish. And I don't see any love going on here.
Alyce: I, I swear you live in my house. I said the same thing this morning, I made you French toast and you're going to say that to me.
I made you French toast and poured chocolate milk with just the right amount of like
Vanessa: yeah, in your favorite dinosaur cups. So you don't get to say that to me. Like I was just like, cause
Alyce: I chopped
you apples and put them in salt and water. So they won't turn brown to wake up 20 minutes earlier to just
Vanessa: wait. I don't even know about that trick. That's like some pro mom's stuff.
Alyce: That's my Mom's tip. You have like a bowl of water and you put salt in it and then you can dip your here's, the apple you dip in a
bowl.
Vanessa: Oh my God, look, you have it right there. That's hilarious.
Alyce: The kids didn't eat it. I was like, I cut you apples, now you eat it.
So now I'm eating it. And then the apples went from brown.
Vanessa: Wow. Wow. Yeah. I'm pro tip everyone. You never know with Alyce, like she's going to deliver the pro tips. Yeah. I love that video about your mom with like the snacks, because I get judged so hard for the snacks that I give my kids, even though like today's version of processed food is very different than what was available in the eighties and nineties.
Like, it's, it's pretty healthy, but yeah. I'm like trying to feed them like cauliflower chips. And my dad's like chips?! What's going to happen. Your daughter. She's never going to amount to anything with those chips. And I'm just like, dad she's fed. Like she is fed and she is not crying right now. So that's, that's the standard.
Alyce: Well, at least your dad cares. My, my dad would never say anything about that. So it was good that your dad's observing. That's true. My kids are picky because I give them. It might make,
Vanessa: I think every kid loves snacks. Like it's just, it's impossible. Like I know who doesn't
Alyce: for dinner. I would try to hide before my mom would find me.
And she, a couple of times she would say it's five o'clock. You can not have snacks. I'm like, I'm still going to eat three bowls of rice mom. Like I still ate. I just want some chips.
Vanessa: Yeah. My kids will always eat rice. You know, they're good Asian kids, they are, they will always eat rice. I'm like I make rice, they will eat it.
So my last question is you know, the pandemic has obviously kind of exacerbated this mass sense of burnout, especially for moms and moms of young kids have an experiencing. So what's your like go-to mental health or self-care routine. And do you have a pet peeve when it comes to conventional advice on self-care for moms?
Alyce: Another good question. Self care to me is leaving my house at, you know, currently it is leaving the house when people are in it, and, uh, I recently joined a gym and I forgot the feeling of just focusing on myself, like I'm on a treadmill. I'm like, oh, I can increase the speed depending on how fit I feel. It's all about me.
Like, I don't have to worry about my toddler or my kid asking for something. Or if this is safe, if they're going to be around, it was just about me. How does Alyce feel? Can Alyce go longer on the treadmill? Like it was the gym. I mean, something so simple and basic, but used to be so, so like simple. And when I was in my twenties and thirties, it's so hard.
For me to like, just digest. I'm sorry. I can't believe I'm in the gym and I shower at the gym and no one's going to bother me. No, one's going to knock on the door, no, one's going to ask me Alyce, where's this. And so it's simple. It's just leaving the house, maybe going to the gym. That's bonus.
If I can work in a facial or like a nice massage that's like, ultimate, grabbing coffee with a friend, ultimate self-care just connecting with like-minded people or, or going for a hike, just you and me - amazing! That fuels me so much.
Vanessa: I love all those tips. A lot of my journey as a mom was like, unlearning this belief that I had that was, oh, like moms have to be sacrificing all the time and you know, moms can't be selfish and God forbid I'm that mom that needs to get a massage or needs to work out or any of that.
And then just kind of realizing that, taking those breaks for myself actually helps everyone. It's better if I'm about to lose it on my kids, like now if my husband's home, I just leave. I'm like, I'm going for a walk. And then I'm back in like 10 minutes and I'm like a whole new mom. So, and then my kids literally say like my older daughter, she was like new mommy's here.
And I'm like, like, yes, she is. She's all shiny and new now.
Alyce: I love that. I do want to build in more of a ritual where like every morning at 10, I go for a long walk by myself. So I feel like school is still just settling in and I hope. In a week or two that I can actually have a ritual. Yeah. You know,
Vanessa: but it's okay if you don't. Like, I can also feel you on that.
Right. Like a lot of being a mom, especially now, is just kind of being flexible. I will not lie. The transition for new schools for both of my kids was disastrous. I didn't sleep for weeks. Like they didn't sleep, it was really rough on everybody. So we're just now getting over that hump kind of, and my husband also returned to work in the city.
It was a lot of adjustment. My daughter, she woke up in the middle of the night, one of the nights that she wasn't sleeping. And she went to my husband's like dresser drawer and found his old shirts and then put them in her bed. And she's been sleeping with his old shirts because she misses her daddy because he used to be working from home.
And then she takes it to school. It's like her new lovey. We have to remember to take daddy's old shirt with her to school. So yeah. It's, I mean, they find their own like coping tools to manage through change.
Alyce: The cutest thing.
Vanessa: I was like, that's very creative. Like I was like a little hurt it wasn't mommy's shirt. Okay. It's fine. It's fine. I get it. And lastly, do you have any like kind of pet peeves with conventional self-care tips you hear, or you know, just things that you feel like moms are told that doesn't resonate with you?
Alyce: I really don't like... I did hear this a lot with my first child - "enjoy every minute of it". That doesn't make us feel good. It makes us feel sad. We are enjoying every minute of it. We're trying. And really we can't be enjoying every minute of it. Maybe enjoying every other minute of it, but you don't need to remind us that. And sometimes I feel like people say it because they are projecting.
Vanessa: Yes.
Alyce: You're saying, because I feel like they regret some of moments that have passed for them. So they're putting it on you now.
Vanessa: totally.
Alyce: I'm like, don't worry. I'm striving to be happy. We're happy right now. I have a lot of pictures on my kids. You know, we do a lot of fun things. I'm pretty good. Like you don't need to tell me to enjoy every minute.
It's weird that people think it's such a good thing to say.
Vanessa: I think that that's an example of like toxic positivity. Like, I can't remember how many times I would just be like pushing the baby around in a stroller. And some like older, usually some older lady would come up to me and be like, oh, enjoy every minute while they're young. And like, one of them even asked me, she's like, oh, is it like playing like dolls?
And I'm like, what?! Why? No! I wish. This is not like playing dollhouse. This is like being in a like Halloween scary movie. Like, I don't know when I'm going to be woken up next. It's not like that at all. And I feel like it's just like toxic sense of you are expected to be so happy, so grateful that you have this beautiful baby healthy you're healthy and you have this opportunity of your life to stay at home with your kid.
And I get it. Like it is a privilege. Yes. But I think part of what contributes to that postpartum depression is that we're expected to just grin and bear it, enjoy every second. We're not even allowed to feel any other range of emotion. And that's I think what is the problem.
Because we don't get to talk about all the other emotions in between, or there's so many other things that are happening for us. I was attending this Mother Honestly conference on Friday and it's for moms, both at home and working. And they talk about how the years that you're a mom, you actually experience the most brain development and changes than any other period in your life.
And it's not just for moms, like any person who is actively caring for young children. That's when your brain goes through the most development. But it's, it's really tough because, you know, workplaces don't see moms as an asset sometimes, or they've been like, oh, you can have flexible hours.
But you know, that means moms are working at like midnight and 2:00 AM. And after the kids go to sleep and there's just like no breaks. So I feel like that the great part is that we're finally talking about it and it's out in the open. My hope is that, there's going to be more action and actual like accountability and difference made.
Alyce: Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I, I really, I remember, uh, I was nursing my baby. And it's the same, what you were saying. We are not allowed to feel the need to complain. We should be grinning and bearing it. And I remember I had like no sleep and I was like, I came out of my room and my mother-in-law was there.
And I was like, oh my God, I had no sleep. And baby was like, up all night. And I was like nursing him every hour. And she's like, you know, you're going to miss this one day. What am I supposed to do with that information? It didn't help me at that time. I'm like, why would you say something that doesn't help me during this time?
And that's not what I want to hear.
Vanessa: I think there's space for that type of response, but you need your feelings validated first. Like you need people to see you and be like, I see what you're going through. I see how painful this is. I can't imagine. Or like I was there once and I try to forget it all because it was so painful.
Right. Like just seeing that like lack of sleep is literally, like it's been documented, it's the worst form of torture for the human body. And, you know, add that like compound that by year is like months, years, multiple kids. Like, yeah. It's no wonder moms are really suffering. So I think, you know, even just having someone say, like, I see you and I see your suffering.
And I still think that you're doing an amazing job and you're giving so much. How can we create a plan where we give you some of that care back? That's why with this whole moms community, of course moms get it, but it's bigger than just moms. We need to really involve our partners, involve corporations, legislation, like this is everyone's problem because the world runs on moms and that's why this is everyone's problem.
And why we need to talk about it.
Alyce: Right. I feel like corporations were mentioning most of the corporations from where I'm coming from in the financial world, a lot of them are white males in their forties for the C-suite. And I remember going into the boardroom, I was the only lady and there were 18 other men and they're all senior VPs and I was doing a marketing job.
And Now that you were saying about how our brains transition and they are learning the most in the first couple of years becoming a mother. And I truly believe that because I feel like I'm just on like steroids right now. Like if someone tells me to do something, I'm like, all right, I don't have a lot of time.
I have to be efficient. I'm only giving the best output. It has to be quality. I don't have any time to waste. And I feel like corporations need to encourage and invite forums for mothers in their companies.
Vanessa: Absolutely.
Alyce: For example, you know, like let the culture be like where we want to take care of moms. And I feel like a corporation does a, let's say comedy thing for a mom, like a self-care comedy talk for moms, give them like a two hour lunch break where the moms can feel connected, feel appreciated.
Talk about self work, life at home, and maybe a little release with some comedy to empower them. I feel like corporations need to put mothers on the forefront and the way to do it is to establish these type of forums and activities and exercises. Then the company will see that because there must be so many creative ways to do this.
Mothers already left the workforce during the pandemic, and now they're struggling to get back in and you're right. We need our partners, our husbands male counterparts to be our allies, to speak up and to support.
Vanessa: Yeah, absolutely. I love that idea. I've also seen data that's showing that mothers are leaving the workforce, not only to balance family, but because they didn't feel that sense of like recognition or awareness of their contributions or support.
It's not even financial for a lot of these individuals, right. It's about like, I didn't feel. Appreciated. I didn't feel like I was making a difference or I didn't feel like I had an impact. And I think those are these kind of like non tangibles that employers can really think about in terms of like, yeah, actually you may not need to, in all cases, give this mom a raise, although I wholeheartedly like, absolutely we should give mothers a raise, but you know, it's not always financial. It could be supporting that mom in ways like, a lot of that's being seen. A lot of that's being appreciated. it's different for working moms.
Alyce: I remember leaving my, making that decision to be a stay-at-home mom. And I let my CEO know, and she said something to me and it wasn't about money. She said, how can we make it work? So you can stay? Flexibility? How many days do you want to work from home? We can do that for you. And for her to offer that to me, I already made my decision.
I still remember, and this was like eight years ago. I still remember her saying that to me. And that's all about being appreciated, knowing that I was valued, but like is so empowering than just like a raise. Of course. I also, I love that.
Vanessa: And I wish, I hope that's happening. That's my hope, is that more times that question is being asked instead of oh, okay.
Yeah. You know, you're either in or you're out, right? Yeah. I think flex work has, you know, now the conversation is changing because of the pandemic. And a lot of people on both sides have realized like, Hey, going to the office five days a week, not really working for anybody really. But I think that's so important too.
Keep that conversation at the top of that list. And the other thing that I took away from that conference was Reshma Saujaniwas their keynote speaker and she's the founder of Girls Who Code. And then she also is leading the Marshall plan for moms, which is legislation that would essentially pay moms who stay home for their labor, because we do unpaid labor.
She was saying, how do we turn this rage into power? And that question like gave me goosebumps. I was like, I'm still thinking about it. Like, that is my mission. Like I need to figure that out too. And we all need to figure it out because we have to help each other.
Alyce: Yeah, that just gave me goosebumps to like literally, yeah.
That's something we'll all work on together.
Vanessa: Absolutely. Absolutely. I honor you and what you're doing with your community. I think it's incredible because I think we're all trying to figure that question out together. Right. Just trying to figure out how do we turn this rage into power?
How can we help each other along this journey? And so I want to thank you again for taking the time to chat with me. I know you must be like so tired from all the shows you've been doing. But I think you rocked it and I admire the energy and creativity you bring to your craft, especially as a mother of young kids.
I see you, so I want to say thank you again. And I hope you found this like a little bit cathartic as well.
Alyce: I did. I never want to leave, like I just want to just talking to you. I do want to, I loved how you're ending this with that question, how we turn our rage into power. I mean, I think we're all taking small steps in doing that. I've turned rage into spaghetti bolognese.
Vanessa: that's power too.
Alyce: It's so good. I got to make it for you. One day. I have a recipe…
Vanessa: Oohh that sounds yummy.
Alyce: we have to collectively together women like you, and support, like people support moms who support their peers. That's a change. I didn't see that 10 years ago. I didn't see that. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa: I think 10 years ago there and still in some environments, there was a scarcity mentality, right. It's like, okay, there's so few of us. So few of us women, especially, so few of us Asian woman, like I literally worked in environments where I would get confused with the other Asian woman constantly. And I would get email sent to me, addressed to that other Asian woman, even though we were, we look completely different, different ethnicity, different height, different way of dressing, different job responsibilities.
And I was like, this is not okay. Right. But there was this feeling of scarcity where, you know, I did see a lot of, kind of like woman on woman, hate crime kinda microaggressions type of thing. And I think thankfully that it's changing now because we're realizing like we can't do this alone. We need each other.
Alyce: Thank God. A lot of women are opening their eyes. And so I thank you for doing this because it's not just for me. It just has been really cathartic, but also for many, hopefully a lot of women are listening and as well and keep doing the great work. I think you're such a natural at this and your questions are so thoughtful.
Thank you. Well, thanks again, Alyce. Thank you.
Thank you for joining us here today at Thrive Spice. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Thrive Spice with Alyce Chan. We talked about mental health for moms and why PPD goes undiagnosed because it looks different for everyone, and why self-care and connection with other moms helps us all navigate the unrelenting chaos and joy of parenthood.
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