Aparna Shewakramani of Netflix’s “Indian Matchmaking” on Fame, Fate and Freedom from People-Pleasing
The author and Netflix reality star shares what it’s like to go from a life of normalcy and privacy as a lawyer looking for love in Texas, to a life over-examined and hyper-edited for the entire world to see. Aparna opens up about her new book, She’s Unlikeable: And Other Lies that Bring Women Down. We talk about reshaping gender roles in South Asian culture, girl bossing vs. girl resting, and navigating fate and agency in our love lives and careers. Plus: Bollywood movies, gratitude, and setting boundaries.
Podcast Episode 17
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Review of She’s Unlikeable: And Other Lies that Bring Women Down
This is a memoir and manifesto that poses the question: what if women truly had freedom from racism, sexism, misogyny, and the incessant thirst for the validation of others (and ourselves)? What inspired me about Aparna’s journey is how she took back her power and reclaimed her story after becoming a viral sensation overnight. Her vulnerability in her book rang true with so many struggles that modern-day South Asian women (and women around the world) embody: whether it was body image and how she looked on camera, to trying to navigate the tension between respecting her elders and the matchmaker Sima Aunty, but also advance gender equality and stand up for her truth. As we talked about her writing process and mental health journey, I was reminded that to observe yourself without judgment is perhaps the greatest form of compassion - whether in dating, work, or in our personal lives. It is an exercise equal parts contemplation, levity, and healing; on looking at your most crushing wounds and wrecks face to face, unflinching in their magnificence and arbitration, with a magnifying glass and pen. May we all be so brave.
About Aparna Shewakramani:
From her polarizing portrayal on Netflix's hit TV show Indian Matchmaking, Aparna Shewakramani became an overnight ambassador for women demanding to be heard—in their love lives, workplaces, and in every space they occupy. While she did practice law full time for 10 years, Aparna is currently on sabbatical with her first book, She's Unlikeable: And Other Lies That Bring Women Down, coming out on February 8, 2022. Aparna was born in London, lived in Dubai as a child, and called Texas her home for over 25 years before recently moving to NYC. She is an avid traveler (over 43 countries and counting) and the co-founder and owner of the luxury travel company My Golden Balloon.
Book Synopsis:
Aparna Shewakramani of Indian Matchmaking fame knows who she is and what she wants—and she is not afraid to ask for it.
When Aparna Shewakramani appeared on Netflix’s hit series, Indian Matchmaking, it soon became clear that Aparna knew what she wanted. But all stories are told through certain lenses—and her story is no exception. Being on a reality show made Aparna feel like a character. Her decisiveness and sense of self-worth led viewers to see her as a very specific archetype: The villain. The woman you love to hate. The unlikeable woman.
It turned around, though, with a single message of support: Be Like Aparna. Soon supporters were in the tens of thousands. Women are tired of seeing other women being vilified simply because they have a voice. In this book, you will learn about the real Aparna Shewakramani.
She bares it all—the good, the bad, and the it-depends-on-how-you-look-at-it. There is her mother’s bravery in leaving her marriage, Aparna’s diagnosis of an autoimmune disease, and her confession that she too is susceptible to the deep-rooted need to be pretty and likeable. But it is also the story of her entrepreneurial spirit and her success. It is about lessons learned and the strength to be your own woman.
This is a journey to prevent Aparna-the-person from being erased by Aparna-the-character.
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Real Talk on Mental Health
Aparna Shewakramani: ‘I’m a Recovering People Pleaser’ | Thrive Spice Podcast
Aparna Shewakramani: ‘Men Need to Change’ | Thrive Spice Podcast
Aparna Shewakramani on her new book, “She’s Unlikeable: And Other Lies That Bring Women Down”
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Full Interview: Aparna Shewakramani and Vanessa Shiliwala | Thrive Spice podcast
Vanessa Shiliwala: Welcome to Thrive Spice, a podcast centered on the Asian American experience of navigating career, family, mental health, and social empowerment. I'm your host, Vanessa Tsang Shiliwala. Our guest today at Thrive Spice is Aparna Shewakramani. From her polarizing portrayal on Netflix's hit TV show Indian Matchmaking, Aparna became an overnight ambassador for women demanding to be heard: in their love lives, workplaces, and in every space they occupy. Aparna was born in London, lived in Dubai as a child and called Texas her home for over 25 years before recently moving to New York City. Prior to her debut on Indian Matchmaking, Aparna practiced law full time for 10 years. She's an avid traveler (43 countries and counting!) and the Co-Founder and owner of the luxury travel company, My Golden Balloon. She shares her side of the story today with her first book, She's Unlikeable: and Other Lies That Bring Women Down. We talk about her mental health journey after becoming an overnight celebrity, what needs to change to create a more equitable world for modern day women in the context of marriage, family, and career, and how she took back her power after she was villainized in the media.
If you prefer to watch our conversation, please feel free to check out the video podcast on YouTube at Thrive Spice. And if you're interested in hearing about the mental health journeys of other Asian American entrepreneurs, creators and changemakers like Aparna, please follow us @thrivespice on Instagram or Facebook for inspiring quotes, videos, and insights.
Thank you so much for joining us here today on Thrive Spice. Before we dive in, I love to just share the story of how we first met, because these days within these pandemic times, I actually haven't met with a lot of my podcast guests, ironically, like in real life.
So I had this fan girl moment with you last October at the Desai Foundation Diwali party in New York City, which was really the first post pandemic party that I had been to, so please forgive me for probably being overly enthusiastic about coming up to you. I really, I was like nudging my husband, like, oh my God. That's Aparna from Indian Matchmaking on Netflix. He's like, Oh, yeah. And I was like, should I go talk to her? And I didn't wait for an answer for him. I was just like, I'm just going to go. I wanted to say hi, and just to tell you how much I had really admired you for being on the show and having confidence for speaking your truth and demanding your worth.
And to tell you that I found you really relatable, as this smart, ambitious woman who had faced many a person and institution, trying to tell her to quiet down. Stop being so opinionated, and just accept what you get. I know that feeling all too well, and I think so do many women around the world. So thank you again for taking the time to share your story with me and the world.
As many of your fans know, you quite literally became this overnight celebrity with the release of Indian Matchmaking on Netflix in July 2020, and you received thousands of messages from people around the world and an overwhelming amount of media coverage as well. Some of the feedback was in admiration and support of how you refuse to compromise your voice and standards in an environment with outdated gender roles and expectations for south Asian women and others were negative with judgment and criticism.
But all were from people who really didn't even know you in real life. You even reveal in your book that Sima, the matchmaker had called you mentally unbalanced and insulted your mother. How did that experience impact your mental and physical health? And how did you take back your power?
Aparna Shewakramani: Yeah. I mean, I definitely was not prepared.
Let me say that off the bat. At the time I was a lawyer in Houston, Texas, and very far removed from anything in the entertainment world. I literally didn't even know what a publicist did. Everyone's like, are you going to get a publicist? And I'm like, what's their job function? What do they do? I mean, we were talking, I lived under a rock as far as this world was concerned.
And so, in a way, that kind of made me agile and also scrappy. I'm just trying to figure out solutions-oriented ways to make it work for me. There was no guidebook. There is no guidebook on how to kind of deal with being vilified on an international television show. So like you mentioned, I was polarizing, you know, I got a lot of cyber bullying, a lot of hate.
Um, I got death threats. That made me very scared because I owned my home. And at the time people knew where I live. People were driving by my home. There were people parked outside, just waiting for me to come out, mind you we're in the middle of a pandemic, which is even more frightening. And I also then, in the polarizing sense, got a lot of love.
I got a lot of these DMs and women around the world saying like, how did you become like this? Please share your story with us. Because on the show, you meet me in a very certain moment in my life, you meet me with no back story. And it was kind of confusing because I was very certain in who I was, what I wanted in my partner.
And I had boundaries on how my family and I would be treated in the process. And so I think that what I did from that was focused on that. I, I chose my mental wellbeing by choosing where I put my energy and my focus. And that was on the people that loved me or admired me, or had questions for me that were, were genuine.
And that was where the book was born from. I wanted to answer that collective question. How did you become this way? So the book is my 11 rules to living life authentically. It's 11 rules to, uh, the way that I shaped myself and formed the person I am today. And, and hopefully that comes across through the anecdotes that I tell. Um, both the stories that brought me to my knees, but also ones that uplifted me and made me a much stronger woman.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Absolutely. Yeah. I loved how you really dive into this villain versus victim dichotomy and the fact that there aren't many spaces for women to exist somewhere in between, which is really where the majority of us are. We're dynamic we're well-rounded. Being forced into this character, um, it's really interesting that you share your journey of how that made you feel and how you fought back and reclaimed your story. So let's talk more about your book, She's Unlikeable and Other Lies that Bring Women Down. I loved it. It was such a refreshing and relatable perspective on what it's like to be this modern South Asian woman who's ambitious, smart, and driven, but the world keeps judging you every time you demand to be met at your worth and life throws unexpected challenges at every corner, especially when you're trying to find love. I especially like that it wasn't this trope of toxic positivity. You share how you found ways to persist, survive, and thrive, despite it all.
But you also shared and normalized those moments of doubt, fear and anxiety that plague all of us. Tell me about the emotional journey and creative process of writing a memoir and your first book. Did you find it cathartic or healing?
Aparna Shewakramani: The book writing process was, was quick for me, it flowed for me. I think the entire book took me about 20 days to write.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Wow.
Aparna Shewakramani: Um, but it doesn't mean it wasn't hard, in so many ways. There were so many things I hadn't processed about the way that I felt. I hadn't processed the, the way the temperature felt that day, or the way that the smell of the room stuck with me, or the way that a certain look from someone changed the whole atmosphere.
I had just moved through it and there are so many things in life - a majority of things in life - that we just move through. If I asked you to process last week, you probably can't, you moved through it. And so the book writing process kind of gives you this moment where you are no longer allowed to just move through an experience, you have to process it, relive it, and then share it word by word in a way that would even make sense to a reader or a viewer of the show.
Um, and I found that oftentimes difficult. I didn't want to go back and really find out that I was betrayed. I thought I was angry, but it turns out I was betrayed. I thought I was sad, but it turns out I was deeply disappointed. It turns out a lot of things when you're writing. And, um, I think that was the most challenging part, but also the part where, you're right.
It was a catharsis, it was healing. There were tears. I had to sometimes put my laptop away and really just sit in the feeling before I could write it. Um, and I think that was a beautiful experience. In hindsight, at least.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Absolutely. I think that's so brave to sit with those feelings, even if they're uncomfortable.
And in your book, you also mentioned that a lot of people don't take the time to process, especially when watching reality television and, you know, having some judgments about the characters in those storylines. So I think that you kind of went through this ultimate processing exercise where it is very scary at times.
And I applaud you for going through that. I know it wasn't easy.
How does it feel to meet with fans and media around the world who were impacted by your story?
Aparna Shewakramani: It's still surreal sometimes. I would think I would get used to it. You know, I think I've done over, I think 250 or 300 media outlets of sorts at this point.
And yet I'm still surprised that my story could impact people, because, to me, I'm very normal. And I think that's also why I wrote the memoir. I was looking for South Asian memoirs of women, just like me who were in their mid-thirties, who were struggling through figuring out life. And it wasn't there. There were so many aspirational memoirs of these incredible women.
I loved them all. I devoured them all, but they were women we had already seen in our screens, they were verified stars. They had started billion dollar empires. They were unicorns. They were all of these things. And I was like, I love these stories. I have so much to aspire to in these stories, but what of the story of the woman who still hasn't got it figured out. And I think that's what my book resonates with. My, my portrayal, the people that I speak to to this day, they resonate with the fact that I just lived my life on that screen. Albeit in a weird edited portrayal. And then I continue to do so on my social media and through my own book.
I'm not trying to tell you, I have it figured out. In fact, I'm urging you to embrace all of the days that we don't have it figured out, and to tell the story of those days instead.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Yeah, absolutely. That totally resonated with me as well. And I kind of picked up on this like big sister vibe from the book, which I love because personally, I'm also the eldest daughter in the family and I get it when you're the eldest daughter, the child of immigrants.
There's so much that you have to learn on your own and then it's your duty, really to share it with everybody that you encounter, because we're all trying to figure out the same things. And I found that transparency and willingness to kind of be vulnerable, really refreshing in this day and age because, you're right.
None of us have this figured out. We're all just kind of going day by day. And you know, I really appreciated you kind of normalizing that.
Aparna Shewakramani: Thank you.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Um, There is this strong emphasis on being afraid of what people might think: people pleasing, a lack of boundaries, especially for South Asian women, women of color, and in Asian culture.
And I think what was interesting about Indian Matchmaking is that it really kind of brought that tension to the forefront and reinforced some of the societal standards as entrenched in racism, sexism, misogyny, colorism, outdated gender roles. In other words, as a woman of color, we are taught to put ourselves and our needs last. Was there a moment in your life where you remember choosing yourself for the first time?
Aparna Shewakramani: You know, I'm a recovering people pleaser. I was always really popular in school. I was in all the right clubs. I went to all the right parties. I knew all the right people. And I think the first time it came to a head was when I was vilified on an international television show.
I mean, if that was not my greatest lesson in life, that you cannot please people. I mean, it was saddening too, because it wasn't that I couldn't please them on my own terms. And with my own story that was taken away from me, it was stripped away from me, but the lesson remained the same, that I'm never going to make people happy.
So why not live life? That is aligned with my goals and my dreams and my passions. Why not check in with myself every day and say, are you moving towards a life that is more aligned with you? And if I can answer in the affirmative, then that's all I need to know. I can't please everyone. I can only please myself and not in a self-absorbed narcissistic way, but I can only follow my own path and gut check my own gut, um, to live a life that's aligned with my own.
Vanessa Shiliwala: That definitely resonates with so many people, I think so many of us are raised to be these good girls, right. Who grow up to be good employees and, you know, good students and then become good wives and good mothers. And it's always about the good right. It's about people pleasing. We're never really encouraged to speak up.
And I think a lot of this is a process of simultaneous unlearning, a collective unlearning from all of us in this community and who see ourselves in these stories, where that struggle is real.
What do you think needs to change to create a more equitable world for modern day women in the context of marriage and family and career?
We're all trying to kind of have it all.
Aparna Shewakramani: I think what needs to change is the men. I think we, um, you know, I don't know how old you are, but I'm in my mid-thirties now. And I think they did a really good job - the communities and our parents, even immigrant, um, parents told their young girls, you can be anything you want.
I mean, anything was kind of a caveat - lawyer, doctor, engineer. That you can be anything you want, you are capable. You can go to the top universities in America, you can be in plays at school, musicals, and do ballet and also, you know, um, do STEM stuff. And then they somehow forgot or focused too much on that, that they forgot to tend to teach the boys in our life.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Mmmn-hmmn.
Aparna Shewakramani: We've got to teach our brothers, and our cousins, and our boy classmates to champion us and to cheerlead us and to amplify our voices and to be our support system when maybe there were forces against us. And so I think that there's this weird disconnect that I hope that we are trying to rectify now maybe with younger men, but that's what needs to change. The men need to jump on our team, and they need to do better than jumping on our team. They need to amplify us.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Oh, I wanted to clap when you said men. I was like, thank you for saying that because these conversations are wonderful... but if we're just having them with other women, and people who are already allies, like, it's not helpful. So I completely understand and agree with you.
And I'm 36. I'm proud to be also in my mid thirties, I'm also raising two girls and I'm trying to ensure that they never feel like they are less than. And it's really hard. I mean, I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old, and they have already internalized messages about what being a girl means. I've had my four year old daughter already tell me she wants to be a boy. Or, you know, anytime we're watching movies a lot of time, the lead is a male in a lot of these classics. And whether it's books or movies, there's this kind of silent message that if you're a woman, you're not in the picture. And I think it's changing, but I do think that yes, we have to talk to this younger generation, but then, you know, I think part of what I struggle with is - is there opportunity to change people who are already our age or older?
Right. That's something that I'm curious about from your perspective as kind of a follow-up there. What about, you know, Men or even women, right? Like you talk about in your book that women can also have practices of misogyny or they can be arbiters of an unknown bias, right? Upholding these kind of patriarchal systems. So what would you say about that?
Aparna Shewakramani: You know, I did talk about that in the book, about my own research that I had to do on what happened to me. Something happened to me on that screen. Everyone wanted to talk about it. And it's that the matchmaker, you know, constantly berated me, or, off-camera, spoke poorly about me or was just very harsh about things, like my talking pattern.
Which, by the way, I talk like this, because I was educated in the best schools in America. And I read voraciously as a child ,and I want to communicate my thoughts with people. And she literally put me down for that. And I think that the enforcement by her and women like her is very harmful and giving them a platform is very harmful.
And so now a lot of people say, oh, you spit a lot of shade. And I'm like, no, no, no. I stand up for myself on a platform that I have built to say that these boundaries have to be drawn. That that is unacceptable behavior, and that the enforcement of those gendered roles on me and other women is not going to be amplified on my terms, or on my minutes, or on my platform.
That is, that is my line that I am drawing. Um, I get to choose what I amplify, we all do. You don't have to have an international platform. You - in your workplace, in your children's school yard, and in PTA meetings - we all get a choice in what we amplify, and if we all made more concerted efforts to be like, very clear on our choices, I think we can make a difference.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Oh, that is so true. I think that empowering other people to really kind of own their circumstances. Like you said, we don't have to, you know, have 250 media interviews. It starts at the kitchen table, in the meeting room, wherever - on the sidewalk, right? It's all around us. And I think that seeing someone really own that space with bravery is very inspiring.
Speaking of boundaries, I'd love to kind of explore more of that as well as self-care. You're a female entrepreneur, you're an author, a media personality. I'm sure there's a lot of hustle involved in behind the scenes. How do you balance girl bossing with girl resting?
Aparna Shewakramani: I'm not doing a great job.
And sometimes I don't, and I have to remind myself it's a season, um, and that there has to be an end to the season. It is not a lifestyle choice. But I do think that it's important to honor rest when you can. And I do try to do that as best as I can. So that might look like putting away my phone for six hours.
It might look like an afternoon nap on a Tuesday. It might look like, um, declining invitations out. I have to do what's best for my health and for my wellness. And sometimes that doesn't look like the way that, you know, people-pleases. And that's kind of the distinction: that by taking care of yourself, you sometimes have to disappoint others and we have to all become more comfortable with that.
It can be done in very polite ways and very honest ways. I don't think I need to lie sometimes to get out of a social engagement. I can say, I'm really not coping well today. I'm feeling under the weather. I'm feeling like I need to rest. Please excuse me. I won't be able to make it, but I would like to, on my own time, when it's better, schedule a time to see you or drop by a present. Or, you know, if you missed an event, um, I think there's ways to say it, where we can all normalize that sometimes we've committed to an event or a thing, and we can't make it.
Vanessa Shiliwala: I love that. And I love that it includes some kind of like low key ways to set those boundaries. Whether it's putting away your phone or taking some time for a nap. I am a huge fan of the random afternoon nap, especially after having kids, like - sometimes I just need to crash. And I think that clarion call of the phone is like, it's so hard.
But I think creating that space is so inspiring for a lot of us who almost feel overwhelmed by like, where do I start? With setting those boundaries and saying no, especially when we've been socialized to say yes to everything and then internalize that guilt for saying no sometimes.
In terms of that control, in the book you talk about your curiosity around astrology and fate when it comes to marriage and kids and your life, but also your aspirations and goals for what it means to have a true partner and an equal in life. So I'm curious, how do you find peace or kind of navigate this tension between fate and the desire to really own this sense of control over your life?
Aparna Shewakramani: It's all so hard. These are hard things to do. And I don't think that we're perfect at it. But it's a process. And if we're accepted as a process and again, move in the right direction, I think we can be kinder to ourselves. Um, I do believe in astrology, I have a very good astrologer. She's a Vedic astrologer. It's very interesting because she also believes that astrology comes with a lot of agency. That we can change our astrology and our fates based on the decisions that we make. And that things don't just happen to us, that we are active participants in our life. And we should be, anyway. I definitely do take some things she says to heart. So one of the things that she and the three other astrologists before her have always told me is that I will meet my husband in my 10th house. And my 10th house is a place of career and public image. The 11th house is where most people nowadays are meeting their partners, which is extensive networks and tenuous connections, which kind of, uh, goes to the modern day dating app.
Your extensive network and your tenuous connection is a dating app that you might be living in the same city as them, someone, you know, might know them. You found them on an app and you swiped right. So when I found that out, I was like, oh, can I just get off the apps? And I did! And I freed myself from them because for me, they were bringing me a lot of, um, disheartenment but also exhaustion and draining. They're soul draining for me.
They weren't just tedious. They were actually harming my wellbeing. And so, um, there was a sense of me where I, I love this belief: that if I continue growing this new career of mine, that, if I continue building my public image on my terms, that the person will come to me. And that's not just the person, it's also the career.
It's also so many other things. I think it's that true belief that I mentioned earlier, that if I do the gut check every day, then I'm moving aligned to my values and my beliefs, that all of the things will come to me that are meant to be mine. And that includes a good partner and a good teammate. That includes a career that I love and includes goodness and health.
That's a belief I cling to, and that I live by.
Vanessa Shiliwala: I think that is so freeing. And I can definitely understand the real headache and the draining of dating apps, because I've heard it from so many of my friends who are really struggling with - just - it's like mental garbage, like having to sift through all of that and all the messages.
And I find it really refreshing to untether ourselves from really trying to control every aspect. And I'm also like a recovering perfectionist. So kind of releasing control has been really hard for me. So I think I saw a lot of that in you. I'm not saying you're a perfectionist, I'm just saying I kind of saw that
same like tendency of like, okay, like you went to the best schools, you chose to study abroad your own way. You engineered a lot of your future. But at the same time, relinquishing control in this stage of our lives is... is scary sometimes. And so I think that knowing that your values are still this kind of rope that you can cling too, and allow yourself to free yourself from, oh my gosh, it's not all happening in the exact way that I want it to happen... is really great.
And I also love your reminder of kindness to ourselves. It's something that a lot of us didn't grow up with. And so we're kind of learning it now as adults, like really having that kindness, taking the time for ourselves and, um, not being so hard on ourselves. I don't know about you, but I definitely tend to be my own worst critic.
So that's something I'm continuing to work on.
You clearly have a strong and protective love for your mom, who was a single mom who had left her own arranged marriage in India, raised two daughters on her own in America. And it seems like she's really supported you throughout this journey, which is wonderful.
People are also talking about Deepti on Season 2 of Love is Blind on Netflix, and that moment when she said, "I choose myself." And I think it's really giving a lot of women life. And I saw parallels between her parents supporting her decision, and your mom has also stood by you. Do you believe we are seeing generational change?
Not just in our generation, but in our parents' generation, in attitudes towards love, agency, and the freedom to choose?
Aparna Shewakramani: I hope so. I only know my own family. Obviously I can't speak to others. But that's my hope: that as they raised their children, and as they love those children ,and as they want, ultimately, what's best for those children, that they break down the societal norms or enforcements of those norms on their children.
And that creates a ripple effect. That is all of our hopes, but I get DMs from people where I know that to not be true. I know that there are still parents out there that are enforcing a lot of the misogyny on their own daughters. Um, couched in what they believe is what's best for their daughter. And so I find that very harmful and hurtful to those women.
I feel very bad that they don't have access to the support system and the belief system that I had access to my whole life. And I really do hope that we can do better for those women and for each other really.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Definitely. I think even just lifting up the examples of your parents supporting you, and not necessarily feeding into this story that we've seen before, about the parents being unsupportive or really not allowing their daughters, the freedom to choose is also helpful.
Right? There's a different narrative. We're not just a monolith. Our parents are not all exactly the same, even though we can have some similarities in cultural values. So I think even that is an act of defiance. And as you said, the ripple effect. It does have an effect on the rest of the community and also how the media portrays us.
Finally, there's some nuance. It's not just one story, right? I'd love to end with like a little fun lightning round and just try to have some fun with it. What is the best or worst pickup line you've ever received?
Aparna Shewakramani: Oooh. The worst. I lived in Nashville, Tennessee, and the men love this one.
"You're so exotic. You look like Jasmine."
Vanessa Shiliwala: Oh God.
What do you even respond to that? Or do you just walk away?
Aparna Shewakramani: Depends on my mood, but I'm like, she's a cartoon character.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Yeah.
Aparna Shewakramani: And just like, you look like a cartoon character.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Yeah, it's another way of dehumanizing us. Which is just so infuriating when you're a woman of color, you're like, ah.
What is your favorite Bollywood song or celebrity crush at the moment?
Aparna Shewakramani: I love the whole DDLJ (Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge) soundtrack. I think that it's calming, but it's very calming to me. It brings back a sweet love story. Uh, you know, they travel also through that. There's this independent streak in Simran. So, uh, yeah, that's like a, always a go-to for me. And I can't wait to see it on stage soon. I think.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Yes! It's going to be a musical.
It's so exciting. Um, my husband is also like a big nineties Bollywood fan. So all the songs are like really, really old. And I'm sure our kids don't even realize, but I'm sure years from now, they'll be like, wow, why are these songs all so old? And yeah, throwback jams.
Speaking of travel, what is your next dream trip?
Aparna Shewakramani: Um, gosh, I want to go everywhere. Always. Um, what's planned is Nice and Cannes. Cannes film festival, and Greece. I think the awards are being planned for June, for may. And a dream trip would just be, um, Chile and the Bolivian salt flats. Um, it's called the Atacama desert. That's on the border of Chile and the salt flats in Bolivia.
So I'm looking at a trip down there and a long time from now - December, January of next year. It's the right season to go down there. So if that happens, I will finally make it to the Bolivian salt flats.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Yes! That's awesome.
So, I'm really glad you're finally making it to the Bolivian salt flats. I think we're all rooting for you to make that trip.
Um, This is something that we ask everybody. What is your Thrive Spice or mental health routine that helps ground, affirm, and restore you?
Aparna Shewakramani: So I try, and I'm not the best of that this past few weeks, but I try to write down 10 gratitudes every day in my journal.
And not just what I'm grateful for, but why. So, you know, I'm grateful for my mother's support because it gives me freedom to pursue my dreams. And then I read each one out loud and say, thank you three times. So that I can feel the things of it after I've written it. Um, and that really just grounds me every day.
And I often don't do it in the morning. I'm not a morning person. I'm always late in the mornings, but I'll pick it up at 2:00 PM or while I'm eating my lunch, or sometimes even at 8:00 PM at the end of the day. And I tried to slot that in. It does take about 15 to 20 minutes, but it's 15 to 20 minutes that I'm giving myself each day.
And I tried to remember that even when I'm tired. Yeah. I really love that. And I think it kind of echoes what you mentioned in your book, as well as recently, is about this idea of processing. Right. We can write it down, but then actually reading it out loud and kind of going deeper into the why and saying thank you.
That is just these kind of small, but really important steps that we can take to actually process gratitude. I'm going to steal that one from you and I'm going to try and do it on my own because I think sometimes there's this mental battle we have in our heads where we're telling us one story, and maybe it's a different story when we write it down and really think about it, and process it, to your point.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Where can we follow or find you and what's next for you?
Aparna Shewakramani: You can find me on social media. I do most of my posting to Instagram. I've recently forayed into TikTok. I'm loving it. Actually. I think it's a really cool platform. So on Instagram, I'm at @aparnashewakramani and on TikTok I think I'm at a @aparnashewakramani there too.
Um, and what's next for me? I'm working on some really cool projects. I can't talk too much about them, but they should come to fruition of some sorts in the next three to six months. And I am excited about them. They're again, away from the legal career and more into writing and creating. So again, they are aligned with what I want for myself, and that makes me very excited and um, yeah, I think it'll be a fun year ahead of um a lot of good work, then a lot of creation. And I think that will make me very happy.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Yes. I think that's so exciting. I love that you're continuing to use your alignment to guide you in your journey. And I think like a lot of us can see parallels in that, you know, you, you were a lawyer, you had this kind of like you had the dream, right?
Like you had this you know, great education, this amazing job. And then kind of unlearned all of that through this process of being on this show. What would you offer to fellow south Asian women or young Asian women who are kind of pursuing the traditional track of corporate or doctor or lawyer, et cetera, and kind of look at your life and think like, oh, you know, could, could that be me?
Could I really let go of everything I was taught to pursue?
Aparna Shewakramani: You know, I talk about that in the book about how difficult that decision is, and not just mentally, but also financially. And so I caution people to not think that it's all glamour and glitz. You will go through a phase that will feel a lot like you know, financial famine to you.
You should be prepared for that. You should have the resources in check for that. We'll go through a lot of uncertainty and anxiety, but also a lot of freedom and liberation. It is not for the faint of heart, but it is for the person who truly wants to take the risk to live a life that is bigger and better for them, and whatever that looks like.
I mean, it could be you know, baking cakes, custom cakes on the side, and then transitioning into making that full-time. It can be starting a travel company like I did. It could be. Literally just taking a sabbatical to reassess your life just for a short period of time. And perhaps even with the promise of your old job back when you come back. Some companies are doing that now with three to six month options.
So it can look a variety of ways. And there is a way to do it that is right for you and at the right time. But that is a decision that ultimately every person has to make for themselves.
Vanessa Shiliwala: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that with us and sharing your journey. I really loved reading your book.
I recommend it to anyone who is a woman or wants to support women who are ambitious and driven and know what they want, and also struggle with the everyday challenges that we go through as modern women, whether it's self doubt or structural barriers to getting what we want, out of our careers in our lives and love and everything.
So thank you again, Aparna. It was really wonderful speaking with you and best of luck on your travels to India and beyond. I'm just so thrilled for you.
Aparna Shewakramani: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today. It was a wonderful chat.